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Cary's avatar

This is a really wonderful conversation. Thank you both so much. I identified with a lot of what you said to sometimes to a lesser extent, sometimes to a greater extent. But it was really affirming. Thank you.

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Autistic Ang's avatar

Thank you 😻

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vōx's avatar

Thank you so much Cary. I’m so glad it resonated with you ☺️💞

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Hanna Keiner (she/her)'s avatar

Thank you for sharing this beautiful conversation!

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vōx's avatar

Thank you Hanna! Thank you so much for reading ☺️💞

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Alys Hedd's avatar

This was a beautiful conversation to witness. It touched on some things that I hadn't considered before and resonated with many of my experiences. Thank you both 😊

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vōx's avatar

Thank you so much Alys! ☺️💞

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Autistic Ang's avatar

Thank you 😻

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Samara's avatar

thank you for this - so affirming to hear others' experiences of this. and such a beautiful, caring conversation between you too two

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vōx's avatar

Thank you so much samara ☺️💞

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Autistic Ang's avatar

Thank you! Appreciate you taking the time to read our convo 😺

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Samara's avatar

my pleasure!

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Victoria's avatar

Thank you, Vox and Ang, for sharing this beautiful conversation with us, creating this space for us to listen and learn. It felt like being in a warm, cosy chair alongside you both, with my mug of tea, listening in on a private conversation. I had to reread phrases to capture the wisdom fully. I'd love to read more conversations between the two of you.

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vōx's avatar

Thank you so much Victoria! It means the world to me ☺️💞

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Victoria's avatar

You're very welcome, vōx. I have questions, but I think I learn more listening/reading, not just the content, but also how you respond and ask each other...how you're building insights. Thank you

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vōx's avatar

Feel free to ask any questions! Ang and I are happy to answer ✨☺️

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Victoria's avatar

Thanks, vōx, Ang! I've a few top-of-mind questions. Please don't feel you have to answer, though. I don't want you to feel you have to 'translate'

- I'm guessing a 'meltdown' is a different experience for each person? Can you share more about what it's like on the inside? Could you describe the feelings and physicality of it a bit more? As a science-y person I literally wondered if you go all cold or hot, or numb

- With regards to 'Masking' and 'unmasking', if I read correctly, both of you make a conscious decision or there's a specific choice-point where you say to yourself you can unmask or not, due to previous negative experiences. But do you instinctively perceive or have ways to identify 'good people' to unmask to, in-the-moment?

If you ask a caregiver, we have our radar - probably honed over time, anticipating our loved one's needs - and we can identify other caregivers quite easily; therefore, we'll share more openly and faster.

So I'd like to understand if it's similar with 'unmasking' for you both. Or is it a question of building trust and a relationship as a foundation to build on, before unmasking?

All very naive questions here! I'm noting the books you both recommended. Please feel free to direct me to good books instead of spending your time on these!

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Autistic Ang's avatar

Thanks so much for your thoughtful questions. Not naive at all! Very much appreciate how you're approaching this with curiosity and care.

On meltdowns... yes they look and feel very different for different people. For me a meltdown's like my nervous system goes into overload and starts short-circuiting. It’s SO emotional and also quite physical.

Sometimes my entire body goes hot, like I'm flushed with adrenaline (could be a hot flash lol) or cold and shaky if I'm shutting down. My skin feels hypersensitive, sounds too loud, lights too bright. Most of the time I cry, other times go completely quiet and still. And by quiet I mean nonverbal and not a choice.

It’s not always visible to others especially if I’m in a situation where I’m trying to hold it in. But inside it feels like the everything's wayyyyy too much and I lose the ability to process or respond "normally." Not a tantrum or choice. More like my brain saying, "Nope, can’t keep functioning under this pressure!"

About masking and unmasking... yeah I think you’re right that there’s often a minute of decision involved but it’s not always fully conscious or clear-cut. Sometimes I find myself unmasking bit by bit, instinctively testing the waters. Like… do I feel safe with this person? Can I show a little more of myself and see how that goes? I don’t have a perfect internal radar (just kidding, yes I do), but I’ve learned to notice the signs over time. Like how someone listens, how they respond to vulnerability, how they talk about others. Those signs usually help me decide whether it’s okay to let the guard down a bit.

I like your comparison to caregivers recognizing one another. I think there’s a similar recognition that happens. Maybe not always right away but in small signals. Still for me, trust always builds slowly. I’ve had to learn through experience who’s safe and who isn’t.

So yep, relationship and trust matter. But once in a while someone’s energy or presence is so grounded and nonjudgmental that it feels safe enough to exhale around them without having to explain everything first. That’s rare for me and means a lot when it happens.

Thank you again for engaging so openly. And for noting the books! I’m glad they’re helpful. ❤️

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Victoria's avatar

Oh Ang, thanks so much for taking the time to answer my question so fully!

It's interesting to hear the nuances and variability in 'your meltdowns,' and the individuality of the experience. 'Adrenalin heat and hypersensitivity' sounds painful. The loss of control must be scary.

In today's fast-paced world, some people can be overly reductive and general in their attempts to understand and connect with others. 'Meltdown' feels too reductive as a label, which is why I asked the question.

Re. masking and unmasking, I hear you, Ang and resonate with your experience from a carer perspective. I dial up my empathy but strengthen boundaries because of every misperception, label and assumption. The big exhale is like unlocking the armour and letting it all drop away, we don't know how heavy it's been weighing on us until its release.

There are beautiful souls in this world who don't judge others based on appearances, or what others think...and curiously listen! I'm blessed to have several of these souls as friends.

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Christopher Van Name's avatar

Such a vital post.

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vōx's avatar

Thank you so much, Christopher!

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Christopher Van Name's avatar

My son is Neurodivergent. His diagnosis include autism and ADHD.

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Christopher Van Name's avatar

He’s also has Intellectual Disabilities and Seizure Disorder. After 28 years with him, I still learn something new everyday from him and beautiful souls, like yourself. Thank you.

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vōx's avatar

I love to hear this. Every human has innate value and worth and magic. Thank you for witnessing that in your beautiful son!

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Autistic Ang's avatar

❤️

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Kat's avatar

I took two sittings to read this, taking my time, feeling, savoring, experiencing what you both shared here. It felt like a prayer of sorts, or a soft hug. I don't know, it just meant a lot. Thank you.

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vōx's avatar

Thank you so much Kat. Sending you lots of love 💞☺️

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Autistic Ang's avatar

That’s such a generous thing to say! I’m thankful you spent time with it the way you did 😻

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